Interview: Pete Swanson of Dagmar Guitars
It is a beautiful early spring day as I visit Pete Swanson, luthier and owner of Dagmar Guitars at his workshop on the scenic Niagara Parkway in Niagara-on-the-Lake, Ontario, Canada. We sit in his living room surrounded by his unique, eye-catching guitars with occasional visits from his extremely cute children.
Dr. D: So Pete, why "Dagmar" guitars? I think I get the reference just looking at your guitars, but maybe you could explain it for those who are not as old as I am or not as culturally aware as you are.
PS: Dagmar was a starlet from the 1950s who was a beautiful, blond bomb shell. She was extremely curvy! Her real name was Jennie Ruthy Lewis. Apparently she was very bright but played the stereotypical dumb blond. She made the rocket bra popular and in 1955, GM came out with a Cadillac that had bullet shaped adornments on their bumpers. GM nicknamed these armillary shaped chrome pieces after Dagmar. You can google it! I think Dagmar is a cool hot rod subculture word.
Dr. D: I can see the connection with the uniquely curved shapes of your guitar bodies. Tell us a bit about your guitars. What types of guitars do you make?
PS: Presently I am building archtop Jazz guitars, both acoustic and electric. I put the word “Jazz” in the description for the sake of tradition but I am in the camp of archtop builders who believe that the archtop is perhaps the most versatile style of guitar. The archtop is right at home with not only Jazz music but also Country, Rock and Orchestral.
Dr. D: How they are different from guitars by other makers? How have you modified or improved on the basic design?
PS: My guitars are non-traditional in most of their construction. The sides are completely rounded over on the outside and the inside is completely concave/parabolic and smooth. This is accomplished mechanically using a string of math equations and table saw techniques. The sides are made up of over 80 segments that are pie shaped like keystones in Roman arches. As these keystones are bonded together they form the radiuses of a traditional shaped guitar. The inside surface is laminated with carbon fiber and the result is a very rigid, stable and strong structure that is also lightweight. When you add compound curves to a structure the result is a tremendous increase in structural strength – think of an egg. My guitars do not depend on the top and back plates to counteract the 150 lbs of tension created by the strings. This means that the top and back are less stressed and therefore freer to vibrate. And let’s not forget that carbon fiber is known to have better resonating qualities then wood and has been used in high-end instruments for some time.
Dr. D: Yes, I was struck by the look of the guitar sides immediately. That must really increase the amount of work you put in on the guitar.
PS: The sides of the guitar are sculpted into their final shape by hand. I carve and fare the inside and outside surfaces using digital calipers to make sure that the thickness is consistent. I am also able to graduate the thicknesses so that there is more wood mass left in the neck area and have it fade thinner as it approaches the waste of the body. I believe this allows for more sustain. Also because the sides are essentially sculptures, I leave more wood mass on the top and back to allow for the rabit that is routed in for the top and back plates to fit into. The sound plates are glued to a solid surface of wood similar to capped kerfings. The benefit here is a better transfer of energy.
Dr. D: Does this constrict how you attach the neck?
PS: The neck is a bolt on unit. I make a carbon fiber sleeve using a simple form, which is epoxy bonded into the body. The sleeve fits the neck heel, which is also the tenon. Inside the heel/tenon is a threaded insert. A single bolt goes through the neck block material and is tightened with a custom made allen key that goes through the endpin jack hole. A thick heel cap is doweled and epoxy bonded to the body to extend the bottom surface of the neck joint. There is a single small bolt that goes through the heel cap and into the bottom of the neck heel/tenon to help anchor the neck down.
The neck is made up of 9 laminations. Four of those laminations are unidirectional carbon fiber cloth, which goes all the way from the neck heel to the tip of the peg head. The number of laminations and carbon fiber add to the stability and strength of the neck. My necks will weather very well as the instrument ages. I also use a two way adjustable truss rod to dial in the neck relief.
Dr. D: I notice that the neck clears the top of the guitar. I take it that this is for better sound?
PS: The neck extension is cantilevered over the top plate versus gluing it to the top plate, again allowing the top to be as free as possible to vibrate.
I should also mention that the neck and tail block wood is concealed inside the curve of the sides. In traditional guitars these blocks are used as large glue surfaces for the top and back, creating muted areas. My design is free all the way around which means when I voice my guitar by carving the recurve area, which is the thinnest area around the sound plates at their outer edge, I can carve all the way around and have it fully functional. This means that my guitar is freer to vibrate then a traditional guitar.
Dr. D: Well you have certainly put a lot of care into getting the best sound of the guitars. But there is more to this design, isn’t there?
PS: Yes! The rounded outside surface is extremely ergonomic. This will appeal to a lot of players who suffer with tendonitis or who are a little larger. Front bevels and back bevels are expensive options on custom guitars. On mine this ergonomic benefit is standard! It can work for however you hold the guitar and is equally comfortable for right or left handed players!!
Also, the aesthetics of the guitar are totally original yet familiar. Even though the guitar is wildly different than traditional ones it seems classic and has a kindred vibe to it. I am able to blend two or more different woods together, like in my checkerboard-patterned guitars, and I am currently developing other lamination techniques and looks.
Dr. D: And the finish?
PS: The finish is water-based varnish that is environmentally friendly. It is applied by brush, let cure for at least two weeks then wet sanded and hand polished to professional standards.
Dr. D: And so ...
PS: So to sum up the improvements are from ergonomics to the instruments sensitivity and originality without being so far removed from tradition that it looks “wacky” and sounds bizarre. My guitars are everything a boutique grade archtop should be. They are loud yet sensitive, well balance between trebles and bases with fantastic dynamic range and are pleasing to the eye - the result of a very thoughtful design from an obsessive personality who is serious about fun.
Dr. D: Do you have a certain type of player in mind when you build a guitar?
PS: This is actually a difficult question to answer because of how versatile the archtop guitar is. As mentioned before the archtop can be played in many genres of music. Thinking about it, I don’t think so much about the player but more about what kind of tone I’m going for and how to increase the instrument’s sensitivity and performance. Voicing a guitar is what lutherie is. I have had different players play my guitars and every player makes each guitar sound a little different. The final tone of the guitar is in the player’s fingertips. I actually like the idea of someone trying out one of my finished guitars more than trying to make them one that does not exist yet. This way the answer to the question “Is this the guitar for you?” is definitive without delving into the unknown. However, co-creating a custom guitar, with a client’s input, from scratch, is a total rush for the exact same reasons - rising to the challenge of building a guitar that nails what they want!
Dr. D: Obviously being a luthier is much more than a “job” for you, more of a passion maybe? How important is passion in making guitars, compared to skill in woodworking, etc?
PS: Guitar building, for me, is a passion-fueled pursuit. I have an undeniable drive to see my designs develop and evolve quickly into well-known world-class instruments, guitars that expert connoisseurs will revere as valid contenders. This is indeed my passion. Passion is the force that helps me overcome the fear of failing and to realize the greatest failing of all would be to deny my drive for success, not taking a risk, and stewing in the regret of not doing it.
Dr. D: So lutherie is a risk for you?
PS: This year has been a huge risk and challenge for me. I have taken a full year to dedicate myself to making my dreams come true. I have successfully built a small collection of great guitars and I have received an official invitation to the Montreal Guitar Show this summer. Without passion these things would never have happened.
Dr. D: You must have done some work with wood before this undertaking, haven’t you?
PS: Yes, but building guitars has been the most rewarding kind of woodworking that I have ever done. I have always been passionate about working with wood whether it is while making a table or building a boat but there is a dimensional difference with instrument building. Luthiers make three-dimensional works of art that are tools to help open up the fourth dimension of sound. This is an exciting idea to me! The fourth dimension has no boundaries as it comes from an individual’s creativity. So, my art is used to create a completely different form of art and I think that is pretty cool. These two art forms are codependent. I also love the wonderment of who will use my instruments and how and where? How will it travel through time and will it become like a companion to someone? Creating a guitar, an instrument with a voice, that a player breathes life into can be likened to a kind of parental experience.
Dr. D: Well I can see that you know what you are talking about. You have beautiful, sweet children. So “dad”, where do you go from here with your guitars? Would you rather perfect a single design or experiment with many different ones?
PS: I am in the beginning of my career as a luthier. Having invented a method of guitar construction that has never been done before suggests that I am all about experimenting. I have a whole warehouse of ideas to try and prototype. For example, I am currently developing a single cutaway model. I love the idea of experimenting with how fine I can go with my top and back thicknesses and I have ideas I’d like to try with bracing. However, consistency will be my main goal for this year and to improve on what I have done. I think this is the continuous goal of every luthier.
Dr. D: What luthiers do you admire? Who do you feel you have been most influenced by?
PS: There are a lot of luthiers that I admire. Loar is one of my favorites to read about. He was an inventor and experimenter. He was one of the first to blaze many trails in the development of acoustic instruments. He invented the archtop!
I admire Bob Benedetto for being a teacher and not over romanticizing various mysteries about the so-called science of acoustics. He has a very realistic approach and I really admire him for publishing a book and DVD set that reveal all of his secrets – well, maybe not all. He is also a master marketer, which I am learning is just as important as being a master builder.
William “Grit” Laskin is another luthier that I am in awe of. He is a master artisan and innovator who is supportive of other luthiers and is another one who likes to share what he knows. I had the pleasure of meeting him at last year’s Montreal Guitar Show and I showed him pictures of my prototype guitar. He expressed genuine interest and invited me to his shop and answered many questions I had.
I bow to Ken Parker. Just take a look at the innovation his archtops have and you will agree that he is a major player in the renaissance of guitar construction. His featherweight, fully adjustable design is mind-boggling! How many sleepless nights has Ken had?!! I also met Ken at last year’s Montreal Guitar Show and just happened to be staying at the same hotel as him. We had breakfast together and he was great company! He enjoyed answering the questions I had and posed a few to me about my design.
Dr. D: Looking through the pages of any guitar magazine, you find dozens of guitar makers these days. How can a serious player go about finding one that is right for them?
PS: I would say that a guitar has to be felt and heard. The guitar has to speak to you and have all the attributes that you are looking for. It has to be so tailored to your playing needs that it should feel like an extension of yourself. You should find it hard to put down and miss it when it’s not there! You should feel proud of it ... if that makes any sense.
My advice is to visit the builder that you’re interested in. Go and see first hand if they are capable of making the guitar that you would consider your holy grail. You should know by how the builder answers your questions if his wares are right for you. Also, go to shows, like the Montreal Guitar Show, and meet the builders and play some guitars!